How I Pissed Off A Bunch Of Asian Women On The Internet
Image by Yaw Yong Xin
Welp, the angry people are at it again.
From now on, whenever I submit an article to The Frisky, I should just make it my goal to see how many hypersensitive people I can offend. That’s what usually ends up happening, anyway.
Here’s a rundown of the latest drama:
I published an article (which itself was based on an old Musings post) about the fact that a disproportionate percentage of Asian women in San Diego (around 30%, according to an informal survey I took on Match.com) openly refuse to date Asian men. The key term here is openly. These aren’t women who secretly prefer to date non-Asians, but don’t admit it. These are women who publicly announce that they will not date Asian men.
Now, the point of my article wasn’t to judge these women. Nor was it to try to convince them to change their dating preferences. Short of me formatting that part in flashing 20-point Comic Sans font, I don’t know how I could’ve made my intentions more clear. For the record, I see nothing wrong with interracial dating. I think everyone should be allowed to fall in love with whomever they want.
No, the point of the article was to share how this affected my personal dating life. Because the reality is that, as an Asian-American male, I’m confronted with a huge dating discrepancy:
A much higher percentage of Asian women date outside their race than Asian men.
This means that, by my calculations, 19% of the Asian men in the United States are left with nobody. Here’s how I got that number: If 36% of Asian women and 17% of Asian men marry outside their race (according to the Pew Research Center), that means a whopping 19% of Asian men are literally left with no one to marry.
[Note: I’m still trying to wrap my brain around this stat, because it’s absolutely shocking to me. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong (because, boy, do I want to be wrong). Is it really possible that 19% of the Asian men out there are left with no one to marry? What am I missing here?]
I certainly think this fact is worth mentioning. And I certainly think the explanation for this discrepancy is worth speculating on.
Of course, my story incited some choice commentary. Here are two of my favorites:
“You sound like a bitter Betty. Maybe that’s why Asian women won’t date you. Because I wouldn’t… not because you’re an Asian man, but because you’re so shortsighted on humanity.”
“No, you’re supposed to be disappointed that you’re a prejudiced, short-sighted individual who submitted a terrible article.”
Not surprisingly, both of these comments came from Asian women. I think it’s safe to say that I made a few enemies today (though, granted, it was really only a handful of — okay, like three — exceedingly vocal women who took offense).
My writer friend, Kathy, summed up their sentiments pretty well here….
Personal attacks and accusations on my transsexual identity notwithstanding, there’s something I find truly sad about this entire situation….
Let’s say that, hypothetically speaking, a black man starts going around the internet and making public announcements that he will only date white women (I specifically use this as an example, because black men/black women is another group with a huge disparity between the genders when it comes to interracial dating).
Imagine the flak the man would likely take. Or, imagine how a black woman who calls out this man might be treated. At the very least, I think she would be commended for having the courage to point out an uncomfortable truth.
And yet, when I do the same, and I point out the fact (supported by hard evidence from a national survey) that twice as many Asian women than Asian men end up marrying outside their race, I’m the one who gets called prejudiced and ends up having to defend himself?
That, to me, is a little messed up. And maybe that says something about how much respect Asian-American men get when it comes to dating perceptions….
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I saw your article at The Frisky. I think anytime you talk about race and dating it’s going to ignite some explosions for some because both can be such sensitive topics.
Anyway, good post.
Hey, thanks. And thanks for stopping by.
Hey Dennis,
Its cool. Don’t let them get to you. You are being honest. Many people have made the same observations and have the same curiosities about those statistics. Anyone vaguely interested in social science would see your article as a starting point for further inquiry. In fact, I keep volunteering for interviews led by Phd candidates who are looking into these facts, which just confirms that your questions are valid and being pursued academically as well. Keep up the good work!
Thanks, Jenni. Yeah, there’s a ton of research that’s been done on interracial marriages, and I love reading about it. Some of the conclusions they draw aren’t necessarily politically correct, but I do find them… well, interesting.
Dennis, I may have missed something here as I haven’t read The Frisky and well I have a fear of numbers and statistics, but when you say 19% of Asian men have no one to date, have you factored in the non-Asian women who date Asian men? Maybe it’s in the other article, but you don’t mention it here. Is this just a plug to go read your other article?
Yes, that would be the 17% of Asian men who date outside their race. You don’t have to read the other article. The stat is taken from the Pew Research Center’s study, which I’ve linked here.
Here’s the exact stat:
36% of Asian women marry non-Asian.
17% of Asian men marry non-Asian.
By my calculation, that would mean that 19% of Asian men… just don’t get married?
Yes, it sounds shocking, but I can’t figure out how else that discrepancy could work out….
This is assuming, of course, that there are just as many Asian men as women in the United States. But even if there aren’t, I can’t imagine how the difference could account for a 19% discrepancy.
There is one point in your article that seems fuzzy and is essential to your point: what is the statistical difference between Asian women that manifestly will only date non-Asian men and Asian women who end up marrying non-Asian men? People grow up and change their minds… They meet Asian people who change their expectations and perceptions. Some marry non-Asians but would have married Asians if they had the chance. Aren’t we mixing the points a bit?
You’re right, the two stats are not exactly the same. I just wanted to point out how eerie it was that I was able to find such a similar numbers.
I love the angry comments from people who either don’t understand your basic premise or couldn’t be troubled to read the entire article before making up their minds about you. Happens all the time in our hypersensitive society and I’m glad you’re able to laugh about the nutty responses instead of taking them personally.
Thanks, man. Yeah, one thing I’ve learned as an internet writer is that the troll are gonna troll, and you just have to learn to roll with it.
If you want a good laugh (or facepalm, whichever you prefer), check out the comments on this piece that I wrote for The Frisky that got picked up by another site:
http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/10/no-man-is-worth-waiting-around-for/
As a white woman married to a black man, I find your article interesting. I’ve heard about the discrepancy in the dating habits of both Asian-American and black-American men and women. Intestingly, I have read a couple scholarly articles (no, I don’t have citations) that boil it down to who white women and white men are willing to date. Apparently there are a lot more white women who refuse to date Asian men than white men who refuse to date Asian women (something to do with war vets). Similarly there are significantly more white women willing to date black men than white men willing to date black women. It seems to me that people are slightly less willing to openly admit that they refuse to date a particular race, rather I’ve heard people say something to the effect of “it’s not that I’m racist, I just don’t find x race attractive.” Unfortunately, they don’t believe that their feelings about a peron’s “attractiveness” can absolutely boil down to racism, just check out political comics from around the time of the emancipation of slaves in the United States.
Not to say it does all boil down to white persons preferences, but it is another interesting aspect to the issue.
I have also noticed a significant increase in this sort of preference among young Latino people (grew up in Arizona, live in SoCal, before I was married I dated 3 Latino men who were notorious for dating white women and almost all the young Latina women I know refuse to date Latino men)
Dennis!!! love your article and i’m an asian gal!
I’ve always found those stats interesting and find articles about it interesting as well. I appreciate you, a male, writing about it. I’ve only seen women writing about it so far. But it’s not like i’ve been counting articles, just haven’t read one by a guy yet. (oh and btw, when I’ve discussed this topic with asian guys they were NOT interested in discussing and were very upset with my thoughts too) I didn’t bother bringing it up to any friends that were with asian men either.. that’s just plexico burress style.
Soooo thought you might find it interesting to know that I am one of those women who has stated that I wouldn’t date asian men. I did so, because most of my life (i’m 31) Asian men have never approached me, “courted me,” or treated me in a way that made me feel the way I loved to feel. Also, very few asian men have ever had any interest in me.. or at least very few have SHOWN interest and so I never knew they even liked me.
When I realized there was a crush, the guy was usually worshipping me and kinda from a distance which is weird because you know someone has a crush on you but they never do more than get all googly eyed and stutter voiced with you.
OR my favorite they never made a move so things became awkward. Let me rephrase, SUPER AWKWARD.
I should also note that I don’t think I fit the stereotype of the asian women I grew up with… i’m not a nurse, I wasn’t a model in hot import nights or a fake model in HIN.. I played video games, seriously watched football and played sports. I also had more than just my circle of asian friends.
I say this because I find that my other asian girlfriends that are like me, have pretty much the same kinda story.
I did try and before I met my current non asian bf I decided in my mind that I would not say no to anyone. I had crushes and dated 2 and crashed and burned before anything even got started.
*shrug* i won’t say never anymore because that is silly all on it’s own but I will say that I refuse to bother to much with asians since I dont’ much love from them to begin with.. You go with what works right?
lookin forward to reading the blogs and happy i found this!!!
Hey Michelle,
Thanks! Glad you liked this post and the rest of the blog.
You know, you’re not the first Asian woman who has said that Asian men never approach her. I do agree that, on average, Asian men probably tend to be more timid. And it’s likely a cultural thing, since traditionally, Asian immigrants are raised with the idea that they need to do what they can to “fit in.”
I think it may also depend on what part of the country you’re in, too, now that I think about it. If you’re in an area where there are a LOT of Asians, then I think you’ll be more likely to meet Asian men with a wide variety of personality types. Because there definitely are Asian guys out there who aren’t shy or timid, who don’t fit the traditional male-dominated cultural stereotypes, etc. I guess some women are lucky and meet these types, and others aren’t.
Thanks again for reading!
Wow, Ms. Michelle, great post! Absolutely non-politically correctly speaking, if Asian guys are not especially tall and are known for not approaching women enough, then they are already TWICE on the wrong side of the demand list for MOST all women, let alone Asian women.From the reaction I see on these sites, Asian guys do not stand a chance at all.
I find this article very interesting. I have a few possibilities that could maybe explain some of the discrepancy and I don’t mean to offend with some possible reasons. One is that I do notice that Whites and Asians are very compatible together. White men especially seem to love Asians and I do mean ALL Asians. Perhaps some of the Asian men who aren’t dating Asian women are dating White men? Okay, here is another possibility, doesn’t China already have a larger number of males than females? I saw a National Geographic map that showed what the average human looks like and it was an Asian male, so maybe there are just more of Asian males than anyone else? Also, there is the mail order bride phenomenon maybe more women are being brought here to be married than men? Here is a question, what kind of Asian men are we talking about? There is a vast number of men from different ethnicities that fall under the umbrella term of “Asian”. Do east Indian Asian men have trouble getting a date or just Chinese men or who? Anyway, didn’t mean to offend, just trying to figure this out. Hope you find a nice Asian girl in the future.
Here’s something I posted on a site that reposted your article.
“He’s dispelling one stereotype, that Asians are good at maths. 111 of excluders out of 396 sampled is 28% and it’s just spin doctoring to overstate his point in saying almost 1/3 rather than say just over 1/4 (which is more accurate), or simply 28%. Way to undermine the credibility of his perspective.
Then he manages to do this “In the United States, 36 percent of the Asian women who got married between 2008 and 2010 married non-Asian, while only 17 percent of Asian men married non-Asian.” And conclude this “As it turns out, my half-assed, Match.com survey nailed almost the exact percentage as a national survey of almost three million households.”
He is of course correct about the half-assed bit, but 28% and 36% are not almost exact percentages. They might be if we lived in a world where a margin of error of 8% was considered startlingly accurate.
And yeah, dating and marriage are related but are not actually the same thing. I’d conclude, if there is any accuracy in his numbers, even the open-minded Asian women who weren’t excluding Asian men from their dating pool, threw a disproportionate number of them back in for whatever reason and married whomever they pleased for whatever reason rather than mirroring a “open to dating” statistic.
Okay I get his point, even though it is hard to get past the schonkiness, but after all that and more he goes, “But, whatever. I’m not here to argue against someone’s personal dating preferences. I’ve always held to the belief that we don’t owe anyone an explanation for whom we choose to date.” Ha ha! Right… what was your point?”
I’m going to make a suggestion. Pull up the same data you did on Match.com for Asian male profiles. And use that as a base for comparing attitudes for dating inside of race and outside of it. Without that you are just blowing air.
Anything you decide to extrapolate from comparing those 2 sets of statistics, find some evidence to back it up.
Using incomplete data about marriage and conflating it with data about dating just makes you look bad. And I know damn well that people don’t have to reveal race when filling in marriage application forms even though it is asked. I got married in the US and declined to because the person asking rubbed me the wrong way. Marrying outside one’s race is not synonymous to marrying “white”. Not saying you said that, but if you are exploring race and using status as a motivator as to whom to date and marry, lets get accurate about which races.
If you maintain that dating and marrying white is status enhancing, what is it saying if an Asian woman marries someone black, native, Hispanic, or middle eastern? You need to eliminate those from your statistics and show the same elimination from your Asian male statistics as well to compare to see what the disparity between the two actually is if you want to make a point that some are potentially marrying for status. Surely also, if you maintain white has status, Asian men who date and marry white women are just as prone to this dynamic as well, whether or not they are as successful or inclined to is a different thing. Or is this whole exercise, a way for you to deflect from that criticism by casting the “blame” at Asian women for being disinterested in you? Yes, that thought did occur to me as I read your article with its lack of balance and gapping holes.
By mentioning it would please your mother to date an Asian woman just makes me roll my eyes. I imagine that factor makes you less appealing to date to westernized Asian women and non-Asian women both. Whether you do what pleases your mother or not is beside the point, you mentioned it, and that’s enough to be off-putting.
BTW, whose being hypersensitive if they get only 3 critical responses and extrapolate that into a whole poor me article.
And your article did come across as primarily whining about Asian women’s dating behaviour because you feel this puts Asian men out in the cold by solely concentrating on why you think the 28% of Asian women in your statistic set excluded Asian men. Perhaps you could put as much effort into examining male behaviour. As a generalization I find male behaviour (regardless of race) problematic because there seems to be a disproportionate number of men who think they deserve “trophy women” (for lack of a better term) regardless of whether the men would meet a similar expectation in women’s eyes. I point this out because of your failure to examine men’s attitudes and behaviour in this whole thing comes across as pretty arrogant, along with the judgment that only one of the 2 women that “winked” back at you was “pretty cute” (shallow, much?).
You’re right, it was only three angry Asian women. But that’s pretty telling, isn’t it? That there is a tiny minority of Asian women (you included) who are vehement that I’m in the wrong here, when everyone else gets my point.
Defensive, much?
I was actually giving you some pretty good advice as a starting point for actually making credible points for your argument because I don’t fundamentally disagree that there are certainly some interesting race dynamics with relations, JUST YOUR USE OF STATISTICS SUCKS BIG TIME, and your imbalanced focus on gender attitudes would make it pretty easy to write you off as a mediocre misogynist who wants to put the blame on women for their dating issues. But I suspect you are such a misogynist who wouldn’t deign to take good advice from a woman.
Must be flattering to be your girlfriend (if you still have one) to have a boyfriend who wrote an article which pretty much says “couldn’t find a date with an Asian woman because they aren’t interested in me (even though “I’m the little Chinese kid standing outside, rattling the gate in envy”), which is why I dated outside my race.” Nothing says second choice like that. Nothing makes it easier for a woman to say “Have a nice life, I’m sure there’s someone wonderful out there for you” with insincerity to find out stuff like that.
Have a nice life.